Podcast: Jamie Rose on Writing Fear, The Tools for Women, and Launching with Courage
hosted by Sue Campbell
Feeling squeamish about your book—or even asking for blurbs? In this episode, Sue Campbell talks with actor–author–coach Jamie Rose about “Madame X,” the inner voice that sabotages women’s creative work. Come for the mindset shifts and bite-size tools; stay for raw memoir moments, smart launch lessons, and a Steven Pressfield surprise. If you want your launch (and writing life) to feel fun, organic, and fear-resilient, this one’s a must-listen.
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transcript
Speaker: Writers, are you intimidated by the prospect of promoting your own book? Do you hesitate to ask for blurbs? Are you leery of putting yourself and your book forward? Then this one's for you.
Hello and welcome to The Write Anyway podcast from Pages and Platforms and the Happily Ever Author Club. In today's episode, Sue Campbell chats with actor, trainer, and author Jamie Rose about facing the inner obstacle that she calls Madam X. Let's listen in.
Sue Campbell: Jamie Rose, I'm so delighted to have you on the Write Anyway Podcast.
Jamie Rose: I am delighted to be had by Sue Campbell. Anytime
Sue Campbell: Oh, thank you so much. So you've been a guest at the Write Anyway Summit two of the three years that we've had it. And you're always among the sort of audience favorites because of the. I think the depth of empathy and understanding and practical help that you can offer writers about the things that are most challenging for writers. So can you talk a little bit about your background and what you do now. And then of course, bringing it up to your book that just came out in March called Facing Madame X, the Tools for Women, which is fantastic. But just give us a little bit of how did you get here? You are a writer. Tell us a little bit about your background as related to what writers would care about.
Jamie Rose: Well, just little background is that writers may or may not care about was that I was mostly an actor my whole life, starting at age six. And it was how I made my money pretty much starting as a late teenager all through, I retired 10 years ago and I'm 66 now, so, you know, through my mid fifties. That was my main job, my pretty much only job.
But when I was a kid, I was a kid through adult bookish, bookish, bookish, always in a book, always reading. Right now I'm reading I think, two books at the same time. I always have an audio book going on, a print book going on, and then I thumb through, right? So I was always that way. It was always my greatest solace.
I just love to be in the world of a story. So I always venerated writers. I thought writers to me is like, you know, the Mt. Rushmore is all writers, you know. I took writing classes starting around in my thirties, would dabble, but I, I never felt like a writer. And then I accidentally had a great idea for a book, and all my friends are writers, not actors.
They were always writers. And she said, you know, you could sell this idea. And I'm like, I'm an actor. I'm not a writer, blah, blah, blah. She said, well, you can, I think you can sell it. So I got a book literally called How to Write a Nonfiction Book Proposal
Sue Campbell: Yep.
Jamie Rose: And by Elizabeth Lyon, LYON. And I followed it, like just said, first, do this, have a marketing, you know, here's other books that have sold, here's that haven't sold here.
Here's how my book is like the books that have sold, and I just did what it said. And then in that magical thing that Jung called synchronicity, that the explorer called W.H. Murray called Providence stepping in right when as soon as you get into action, unforeseen help seems to happen, my same friend who said, I think you can sell this, said, Hey, I just heard of a literary agent that's looking for women who are working on nonfiction books. Why don't you send her your book proposal? I sent it to her, New York agent. She took me on and within I think a month we sold it to Penguin and then uh oh. That was, I was thrilled,
ec Static. Got the contract. I got the contract. But since I had come from Hollywood, I didn't start writing until I got the check, which was probably three months after I got the, the contract. But like. Penguin isn't Hollywood. I mean, it's not,
Sue Campbell: That's an understatement
Jamie Rose: it isn't like they're gonna change their mind. They, you know, it really does mean you have a book due.
So I waited way too long to start the book, and then not only that, they wanted to crash the book, meaning I had a year to write it, but because it was, it was using dance as a metaphor for relationship and Dancing With the Stars had was at that time the big hit. And uh, they, they asked me to crash it, write it really fast.
So I wrote that book in three months. I was in a panic the entire time, like. Crying terrified. And when I sent in the first half of my book, which my editor wanted, I thought they're gonna ask for the advance back. I am just terrified. And she, she wrote back and said, I love it. And I was like, oh my God.
But then I'm like, I can't write the rest of the book. And then I finish the book, blah, blah, blah. So, anyway, that was 2010. And so again, that weird thing of how coincidence-- I've learned to just follow the thread, right? So I, for that book, I called up Phil Stutz, my old psychiatrist because he's the first person who talked to me about Jungian archetypes, masculine feminine archetypes.
I called him to get a quote and he said, oh, that's so funny 'cause I'm also writing a book called The Tools. And that book came out and was a big hit. My book was not a hit. My family loved it. My friends
Sue Campbell: I loved it. I read it. It's, called Shut Up and Dance everyone.
Jamie Rose: it gets called shut up and dance and, you know, it's got pictures of my family. It's kinda my genre, which is self-help with memoir.
Anyway, I started working with Phil Stutz kind of helping him teach seminars because his co-author Barry Michaels was wanting to do things on his own. And so I stepped in with Phil and soon I began co-teaching and now I speak to him every day and I'm his protege and blah.
Okay, so this book. 14 years later, 13 years later, at my first book signing, my writing teacher came up to me, while, I'm signing the book, and he said, start the next one. And I didn't because I had a book deal with Penguin and la la la Well, you know, nothing happened like that was la la la except I had a book, you know, it was fantastic.
But I then didn't write another one for till last year. Came out a month ago. Alright, so, this book is called facing Madame X, the tools for women, and I'll get back to writing craft and things like that, but Phil has a concept called Part X, which is the part that says you can't do it, you can't write the book. Penguin is gonna ask for their money back. You can't do it. You're an actor, not a writer. Who do you think you are? It's been 10 years. You can't do this, blah, blah, blah. It just attacks everyone, male and female. But I noticed in the books, the tools, books, I mean, the tools and Coming Alive were written by men and a, a woman named Sue Campbell.
Oh, oh, there she is. There was one particular tool called the mother, and in this tool, the mother archetype absorbs your pain into her body. And Sue was like, you know, I am so tired of absorbing the pain. Can we just disintegrate, vaporize the pain. And I, and that's how, part of why I got the idea for this book, like, wait a minute, this work is so valuable, but it, I want to ge change some of the languaging so that it's not coming from this male point of view.
And they're both really very realized men and, and really have strong feminine sides. It still, the languaging can't help but come from that point of view. So that's kind of how I got the idea for the book. But back to you writers, this book again, every day. I can't do it every damn day.
I'm married to a writer. He's in the other room writing his 15th novel. Okay? I do not relate to him on any level. He, he just starts the next one. He just is always writing a book. I do not relate to this, this at all. He doesn't need special circumstances. He doesn't need, oh, I'm gonna do it from 10 to 12. He writes all day in bed.
I can talk to him. I can go in and say, honey, what do you want for dinner? He looks up from the novel, answers me, goes back, this is not me. It's such a fraught experience for me, and I think that's why I'm a good teacher about mindset for writers is because: come to me if you have like no confidence, don't think you can do it, feel hopeless. I'm proof that you can do it. I've done it twice now, and the fact that my book Madame X exists means.
I beat Madame X, I call her Madame X because back when I was Phil's client, Phil Stutz, in the late nineties to early two thousands, and he talked about this concept of Part X, he used to, to tape every session and we'd have little cassette tapes, and I labeled one of. Madame X 'cause I was in there in a full, what we call an X takeover. I was like, I will only be happy if I get this particular thing or that particular thing, and it's not fair that I'm not getting it. So we call that an X takeover.
So that's why the book is called Facing Madame X.
Sue Campbell: so I found you because I watched the Stutz documentary, that Jonah Hill did with Phil Stutz. And I started poking around into the world and I found YouTube videos. This was pretty much during COVID, I think. I found YouTube videos that you did with Phil. And I was like, well, who's this?
Like, right. Because I love feminine energy. I love masculine energy too. But at this stage in my life, I feel like I've, you know, I had a wonderful big brother. I, I had a lot of strong male influences. I didn't have a lot of strong female influences. So when I was like, I wanna work with somebody who does these tools, I wanted it to be a woman. And I was drawn to you, and when we started talking, you would always give me the feminine version of the tools, right? Like your version of the tools. And you understood that women face particular challenges with Part X that men don't face. So the fact we're we're naming a Madame X, that there are special challenges and ways that Part X talks to women because of the patriarchal culture that we live in, that we have extra work to do or specialized work to do.
Jamie Rose: and actually men also have specialized things they do. But it's so systemic, the di is it di demotion? Is that a word? Yeah. Of women and and I mean, I have a, a 10-year-old step granddaughter who is buying anti-aging products. Okay. I'm 66 and I thought, well, we've evolved, right? No. have in some ways, but in other ways I think it's even worse with social media and altered images and now AI and it's always about how the woman looks. I mean, I get comments, people who knew me as an actor saying, still beautiful, still pretty as if that's what's important about me. I mean, it's a sweet compliment, but it can't be what's important about me. What's important hopefully is my character, how I treat other people, how I bounce back from, from pain, from tragedy, from failure. That's what I pride myself on. So, you go to my husband Bruce, who he is, a public figure, and Bruce Wagner, and you'll go, well, Bruce, still looking good. Like a fine wine. That's my, that's my least favorite one.
yeah.
Sue Campbell: So messed up. So you've got like all of these physical things that we're supposed to concentrate on, right? The culture wants you to spend so much time on maintaining your own objectification, and then will try to discourage you and tell you you don't have anything to say when it comes time to write your book.
Jamie Rose: Yeah. Yeah. There's people in my life. There's, there's this one, I won't, I won't say his name in my life, who, who gave me advice about where blurbs go on a book. Like, well, this is the kind of blurb that goes on the back, and this is, it goes in interior as if, first of all, it's my second book.
Also, I've been reading my whole life. I'm married to an author. I mean, you think you need to explain to me where a blurb is placed. You know, I mean, like, really dude? And I don't want this to be all like a man bashing female thing. And I think one of the reasons you and I related is because in my family, I, my problem parent, then it was healed, and you can read that in the books, very much healed. Unusual story. But my mother was not the source of comfort in my family, my father was.
So I think because of that, I work with a lot of men. I work with a lot of writers, funnily enough, but I have a lot of masculine energy. I was raised always to have a job. I was so career driven. When I went to Phil, it was like my worth was what my latest job was, what my billing was, what my salary was. It was a very masculine driven, and my first book, Shut Up and Dance was about me misunderstanding the feminine energetic. Mistaking it for something weak, which is what we've been taught it is. Passive, absorbing, I'm gonna take of you, I need help.
Sue Campbell: Yeah.
Jamie Rose: How long should it be? So then that helped me with this book, right, to identify those subtleties. And so I just love Phil's work and Barry's as well and wanted to bring it forward. Also in this book also contains some my own original work. But how this book is really different from, from their, the, the, the tools of Coming Alive and, and True and False Magic Lessons for Living is my favorite fill book.
'cause it's much more like, much more like how, how he was when I worked with him in the eighties before The Tools sort of took over. He didn't really have tools back then. But this book has a lot of my own, my client's life, but a lot of my own life in a very self-disclosing raw memoir. And what I tried to do was use that as how these techniques, this way of thinking, can get you through the problems of life, like I, the fact that I have written two books, but each time I was convinced I couldn't do it, yet I did it. The fact that I had this one career that just kind of went away and I had never finished college, I had no other skills. And by just showing up and moving forward in starting it, like, you know, little jobs, $10 an hour led to me being a professor at, at a university without a bachelor's. I didn't lie. I just got life credit to teach. And then that led me to Dancing Tango, which led me to get an idea for my first book, which led me back to Phil. I mean, that's the heart of the book. And then with my mother, we had a really difficult relationship growing up.
I could, I really did not like her and, I fell in love with her in the last 10 years, and we had such a beautiful ending. I was with her as she died. I took care of her. I lived with her, uh, next to her, which is mostly living with her, there's a love story embedded in this book, and it's that healing and it, and it's about getting over resentment, even justified resentment.
Now, my story's different because I had a parent that changed and I had a parent that I was in pro close proximity to. So it's a very unusual situation, but still being willing to let go of justified resentment is, you know, it doesn't mean that it makes it okay.
It doesn't mean things are okay. It means you're just taking off the chain that is still encircling you because of that resentment at some point. And you don't even ever have to see that person again, but you can to let go of the resentment, which is a soul killer.
Sue Campbell: Absolutely. I found the memoir aspect of the book really helpful because instead of like a sort of removed clinical case study, it really concretizes what are the scenarios that you use these tools in, in a really like, poignant, dramatic way? Because it's not just about the tools, it's about the emotion that happens as a result of using the tools, and the transmutation of negative emotion into something that you can actually work with, and you don't get that when you're not putting a piece of your heart and like conveying that emotion through a story.
Jamie Rose: Yeah, when I was acting, I used to say, you wanna leave some blood on the stage, you know? And I feel that way about writing and, and then I love, as I said, I love writing. So there's some, I have to say in, in this book, there's some passages that I really like the writing, you know, that I really tried to tell a story that would evoke emotion in the reader.
So in that way, part of it is, is crafted. It's not, oh, here's, here's some tools. And the tools we're calling the tools, they're what they are. Uh, they're lit, they're littered, they're sprinkled through the book. And they are short little meditations, usually visualizations very short, that help you physically understand a teaching, to feel it in your body, to feel what that feels like to, oh, this is what letting go of something I'm attached to feels like. Here's a meditation where I can practice that feeling.
But the tools are, they're like the icing on the cake. The cake is the teaching underneath them.
Sue Campbell: Yeah, I love that. Also, they're so accessible 'cause it's like, oh, I can go take a little lick of icing without having to taste the cake. But then that makes me wanna have a piece of the cake. I think the tools are so accessible. You can start with the tools and then work your way down to the underlying teaching.
In my life coaching certification, we were basically trained in a version of cognitive behavioral therapy, a a lot of lineup with cognitive behavioral therapy. And what I found was it was so cognitive that people just like knew it on a logical level, but they couldn't incorporate it into their subconscious so that it became really, truly shifted.
It's like they were always having to think their way out of it. So for me, the tools allowed the storytelling that you're trying to layer over-- this is what my book is about, the story that you tell yourself, right? Mm-hmm.
The tools allow you to internalize the storytelling and really get a felt sense of it and sort of rewrite the story from an internal way instead of just thinking your way through it every single time it comes up.
Jamie Rose: You know when you memorize something, you learn it by heart. Not by brain. I know it by heart. And that's what we're talking about here. I often get, this is a very common thing with, with, with people who, who come to me, which is I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing.
Right. sometimes writers will have like six different projects and they'll work on one and go, oh no, but I really should be working on this one, or, no, no, no, I should work on. Okay, so two things to say about that. One is you only find out what you're meant to be doing by doing.
You don't find it out by thinking about it and trying to figure out what should I do? I have people doing exercises in my book called Musing. You take your journal, assuming you have a journal, and you write down before you go to sleep, three to five things you might be interested in doing and it should be fun, like, uh, dog walker, uh, butterfly catcher, vi vintage clothing store owner, writer, chef, stockbroker, right?
And then so you write those down and the next night you do the same thing, but you don't look at what you wrote the night before. You let your muse, you let your imagination come up with three to five other things.
Librarian, fitness instructor, stockbroker, vintage clothing, store owner but butterfly catcher, right? And you do this every night for one to two weeks. And then at the end of that time, you look at all of them, that's when you're allowed to look and you see which three repeat, and you take action toward each of those things and you follow it for a while and you find out that way what you're into.
That's how you find out. Then you have to take the action for a while. It took me, 14 years, 13 years to write my next book. But I had some other book ideas in between and I actually was gonna write a, another book actually about implant removal.
How a lot of women were doing that and, and I interviewed a lot of women, women who had had mastectomies and chose to not get implants and got something called flap closure and the challenges with that. Really interesting topic. But then this article came out with Christie Teig, is that, how say her name? And she had a big article about implant removal and I realized, you know, I'm really not the one to write this book. I really put the time in, but I went, I don't think so, but I found it out by really taking that idea for a spin, you know.
A serious one. So you do that with these ideas because you've now found out kind of what you're interested in. So that's a, and that's something I got actually from an astrologer 40 years ago when I was looking, I wrote down my, my type in men, and then of course went off with someone who completely wasn't on the list and it didn't work out.
Isn't that shocking? I don't know why it didn't work out. He didn't have any of the qualities on my list, but I thought I could make it work.
Sue Campbell: Well, I'll, before, before we go, I wanna spend at least a few minutes talking about the launch of the book.
Jamie Rose: Oh,
Sue Campbell: You and I started working together 'cause of like personal development stuff, right? You were coaching me and then you were writing a book and then when it was time to market the book, you're like, Hey, I know someone who could...
Jamie Rose: like, well, you're my coach. Well, first of all, Sue, thank you. Those of you who are launching books for I for sure recommend working with Sue. She had me do a lot of pre-order events and I would never have thought of this myself and it was really helpful. It was helpful in, in some, some of it was pre-sales, but also it was very helpful in me learning how to talk about the book.
Sue Campbell: Yep.
Jamie Rose: it was very helpful for me to prepare and also to do something in that anxiety filled period between, I finished the book, the book now exists and launch date, , I had book sales, but more importantly, it, it got me to develop assets for the book and put me in the world of the book.
And also, with pitching yourself for things. Right. So pitching myself for podcasts, for example, and even, okay, back to blurbs. She helped me when I was in my blurb stage when I really had just had my first draft and the galley and, okay, so I'll tell you the first blurb thing.
So we know the author Stephen Pressfield, who was like amazing. He wrote the War of Art, like he's a top person in this, in this area of self-help. And we've met him, uh, me and my husband socially and very nice guy. And Sue said, you know, ask him for a blurb. And I'm like, I cannot ask Stephen Pressfield for a blurb. That would be gauche. He would judge me, he'd be offended. And I went over to my husband, and I said, well, you know, Sue said I should ask Stephen Pressfield, but I, I'm absolutely not gonna do that.
He said. Of course you should ask. Like, oh shit, now I have to ask. So I wrote this email. Hello? Would you consider? He immediately wrote me back the sweetest thing. Clearly read the whole book. 'cause sometimes you, they write a blurb, they're like, write it for me and just put on the book and it'll be fine.
He read the whole book, gave me this like overly long blurb, that I had to cut down actually. But a mensch. So that was like a great example that someone I thought for sure was gonna give me a blurb who I actually really do know and have always been very supportive of. I thought, well, this person and famous writer will for sure get me a blurb.
Not only did she not gimme a blurb, but she ghosted me. And I know she got my emails because we have a mutual friend who said, Hey, you know, Jamie sent you this thing and you haven't responded. She goes, oh, I know, I know. I've got a big stack. Just ghosted. She could have just said. I'm busy, you know?
So, so, so there's surprises on both sides. Then the other thing was this podcast, and there's this podcast that is in this world i'm in that and, and, uh, I just was like, I can't ask to be on this podcast. I can't, and I sent, uh, a letter finally, Sue's, you know, putting fire under my feet. You know, it's, it's so much what I teach, which is, it's not about the podcast, it's about working through your fear.
So I sent a letter, got a very sweet reply back from the producer saying, we're, we're not lining that up yet. Our next season, but we'll keep you in mind. And then I followed up and I got a similar thing. Then out of the blue came a better podcast. Someone who invited me, someone I met once, like a year ago, found me and I'm gonna be on her podcast and I don't wanna say better, but I mean, is a big reach and all somebody Yeah, I would, I, but I would've been afraid to ask her.
So that's that thing I'm talking about again, where Providence stepping in. You'll take, be willing to take an action over here and you'll get a no, but something from over behind you shows up. So it's about continuing to take the action, continuing to do what frightens you, which is asking for blurb or writing the book, first of all, following through, asking for blurbs. Asking to be guests on podcasts, putting things up on social media, creating events, and there's risk in it, but what we wanna develop or I, I have developed mostly, but I have my little pockets, you know, that kind of a hunger and an excitement. When I feel afraid of something, I get a little excited.
Sue Campbell: Yeah, and
Jamie Rose: I'm like,
Sue Campbell: that's one of the questions that I always ask clients, and I remember asking you, I could like look up what you said. How do you want the launch to feel? Everyone has this, like, oh, I'm supposed to do this, this, this, this, this. And they have like a task list for themselves that their inner perfectionist is expecting them to do. And I'm like, all of that, if you're gonna do any of that, it has to be driven by an emotional fuel. So if this launch is gonna feel good, to you, how do you want it to feel? Do you remember how you wanted it to feel?
Jamie Rose: I don't remember how I wanna feel. But I'll tell you , how I didn't want it to feel. And it started to feel on launch, on the day it came out, I had that feeling of failure.
I looked at the number. It wasn't the number I was hoping for, and suddenly I had that feeling of failure and I had to treat myself. I had to use my work on myself and go, wait a minute, you, you're off in another land and it's a land of numbers and that your success is based on numbers and that's a land of a point of no return.
Because it's never gonna be a high enough number. And if it is a high enough number, you'll think, oh, I need this. I mean, I know this from acting. I started my own television show. I was the face Lady Blue. Well, you know, the writing isn't that good. I need a movie. I need, you know, and so it lasted a day, that feeling.
And then I reminded myself, wait a minute, I'm really proud of this book and I thought I couldn't do it. So first of all, I have a book and then I got myself back on track, which was celebrating and enjoying the book and I really got over it. And a couple people recently have said, so how's the book doing?
And I said, it's doing great. I'm getting great feedback from people, which I am. And then by the way, the numbers have gone up since launch day. So it's kind of thing where people are telling other people about it, which is what I want. And I really wrote this book too, because I love coaching and teaching seminars and if I wanted something from this book to achieve, That's what I want. I'm not really interested in it being a bestseller. I mean, I wouldn't turn it down, but I never have have had that expectation on this book. But they said, you know, so how, how's it doing? Well no, it's, you know, I'm getting great feedback. Yeah, but is it selling?
And I said, you know, and I really meant it. I said, I don't really worry about that. And I meant it, , I didn't just say it, I meant it went. You know, I just don't really pay attention to that. So I'll look at the Amazon and go, oh, that's interesting that it went up. Hmm. You know, as information, not as like my first book there was, there was an app called Novel Rank. It was my first book and I had it on my phone. Novel Rank told you your Amazon score, not just for novels, for any book.
It told you your Amazon score hourly. And I was hitting that thing like a rat, wanting a food pellet in a cage. I want more numbers, you know, and I was sick. So I do not want and, and haven't had, except for those moments, which are just human, you know, everybody go, goes through that, of course we do. But mostly I'm like, wow, I really like the book. That's amazing. And I got to do an audio version, which was fantastic. And you know, I got to live it, you know, live in the book what I always wanted when I was a little girl, you know? So, that's what I have to say about that. Did you find what I said?
Sue Campbell: I said, how do you want it to feel? And you said, fun, organic, exciting, and not like I'm selling something. I'm teaching. I want it to feel fun and attraction rather than promotion, which I love.
Jamie Rose: There you go. Yeah.
Sue Campbell: like you pulled that off. How do you feel?
Jamie Rose: yeah. Yeah, I do. I'm still, I'm in that thing too. I like the book and that's huge. 'cause my first book, I liked a lot of it, but some of it I didn't like that much. I felt it was kind of just filler because I was like, I, okay. I pretty, I felt like halfway through the book that I pretty much what said what I had to say on that subject.
So I'm like, well, let's have some pictures. Let's see. Let's interview some people. This book, I, you know, I took the whole book to say what I wanted to say,
Sue Campbell: Yeah. Well it is a wonderful book and I know it has already helped people, not just writers. It's already helped people.
Jamie Rose: Men have read it too. A lot of men have read it and really got
Sue Campbell: I wanna read the Steven Pressfield dis distilled quote here, right? Because I, a lot of our audience knows Steven Pressfield in the War of Art. That's a book I read at least every two years, right? I reread it. And Steven says, in Facing Madame X, Jamie Rose not only takes the idea of the tools originally evolved by her mentor, Dr. Phil Stutz, and conceptualizes them for women and the female hero's journey, but she delivers a hell of a brave and compelling memoir r of her own up and down life as well.
Jamie Rose: Oh, I know. Pretty great. What a sweetheart. And so I say go buy a lot of Steven Pressfield's books.
Sue Campbell: He's,
Jamie Rose: and he doesn't need the help, but he's just, he's not only is he fantastic, but he's a doll. So you heard it from me. That's my blurb for him. Steven Pressfield is a doll. Put that on the front of the book.
Sue Campbell: Is there anything else you wanna say about launches? Because here's the thing, here's what I love about you sharing your launch experience is you are an actor. You were an actor. You know about putting yourself out there. You know about being in the public eye. You know about vulnerability. You still had a day, where you were like, Ugh.
Yeah.
I want people to know that. If you're experiencing that kind of emotion, that is normal. Even for people who are used to being in the public eye and used to marketing and used to all of that stuff.
What else do you wanna say about people to help get them through? Because I think it stops a lot of people. They don't even finish their books 'cause they're worried about what comes afterwards.
Jamie Rose: so a couple things. One is, I mean, it it, forgive me if you don't like this word, God, but I don't think of it as the guy in the sky. To me it's a, it's just spiritual. Like it's not the material world, it's God's book. So that's one thing. If you look at it like you're of service to the book, , the book , is your child and , you wanna support the book.
So it's really not about you. Right? If, if I make it about me, that's what I get hung up on stuff. But if I make it about, no, I put the effort into this book and the book deserves support. I'm not a self-published author. I had a publisher, and I even was with a big publisher, my first book.
The other thing I will say is. Even with a big publisher, you have to do your own stuff. I had frigging penguin, like, and it wasn't that I resent them for it. My book didn't have the numbers at first, so they had to move on. They had, you know, thousands of books. So I created a bunch of events for that book and so that helped me with this.
I realized that I had to do it myself and then to try to make that fun. Like what turns you on? Like my first book, it was a self-help book about relationships, but it was using tango as a metaphor. So I made tango flash mobs. I did, I was at a bookstore and I had like, people pretend they were looking at books and then music started and they all started dancing.
And you know, I made my own fun and my pre-order events were these online seminars where were, where I got to teach, which is my favorite thing to do. I look at coaching as teaching. That's what I love to do. So I really enjoyed the pre-order events. So find a way the what is fun for you and, and again, keep that detachment of this book has its own life in the world and you wanna help it.
Sue Campbell: Yeah, yeah. I love it. Well, Jamie Rose, where can people learn more about you and sign up for your newsletter?
Jamie Rose: Okay, thank you. Sue's big on the newsletter. Get those emails for your newsletter. Jamie Rose Coaching, J-A-M-I-E, rose coaching.com. Subscribe and you'll hear about workshops and events and how to work with me one-on-one if you wish.
Sue Campbell: Love it. Thank you so much, Jamie, for your time. It's always a pleasure.
Likewise.
Be sure to check out Jamie's new book, Facing Madam X: The Tools for Women wherever you get your books. And if you'd like a weekly dose of writing insight and mindset and marketing tips in your inbox, subscribe to the Write Anyway Newsletter at pagesandplatforms.com/subscribe.
And that's it for this episode of the Write Anyway Podcast. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you next time.